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	<title>Comments for The Moral Heathen</title>
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	<description>I fear those who require the fear of God in order to be well behaved.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:19:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The God Delusion&#8221; and the question of morality by moralheathen</title>
		<link>http://moralheathen.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/the-god-delusion-and-the-question-of-morality/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>moralheathen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dane, correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds as if you believe morality did not exist in human culture until biblical times (or after)?   

The quote I chose to use may have appeared in the Bible, but as you pointed out, it is nothing more than mere common sense. It is not the invention of the Bible, any more than is the concept of a &quot;god&quot;. If it had not been written in the Bible, it would have appeared elsewhere in one form or another. More likely, it *had* already been written (or passed on verbally) long before appearing in the pages of the Bible.

Scholars have discovered that the stories and myths printed in the Bible are essentially mere duplicates of myths that had appeared in religious texts predating Christianity.  Everything from the &quot;Great Flood,&quot; the crucifixion and the resurrection story: all are the same stories from earlier religions with only slight variations. 

The striking similarities of what we call &quot;pagan&quot; religions (particularly those from BCE eras) and Christianity is quite eye-opening. It is clear that the writers of the Bible had merely copied stories from their predecessors. (I will go over this topic at more length another time.) 

Back to the point in question: Civilizations in the BCE eras most certainly had moral codes.  Of course, as with most other aspects of society, morals were less refined or &quot;expressed&quot; as they are today. (And, when in the absence of an organized government and law enforcement: even more so.) But they most certainly did have moral codes. 

Until the scientific era, civilizations tried to grasp and explain the many mysteries of life. It is only natural that humans would invent supernatural gods, myths and religions in order to explain the unexplainable. Moral codes were then incorporated into these religions or myths. Some &quot;moral codes&quot; were integrated into religion for governmental control; to govern the people by instilling fear in them.  

Technically?  Yes, it would be fair to say that most moral codes originated in religion.  

Could moral codes have arisen without religion?  Yes, most definitely. 

Would these moral codes have been different without religious influence?  There are a few so-called &quot;morals&quot; that some religious groups still cling to today, which I earnestly do not believe would exist had it not been for religion. 

**I say &quot;so-called&quot; as I, personally, would not refer to them as &quot;morals&quot; in any way, shape, or form. (Yes, here is where we run into trouble: defining &quot;morals.&quot; :-))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dane, correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds as if you believe morality did not exist in human culture until biblical times (or after)?   </p>
<p>The quote I chose to use may have appeared in the Bible, but as you pointed out, it is nothing more than mere common sense. It is not the invention of the Bible, any more than is the concept of a &#8220;god&#8221;. If it had not been written in the Bible, it would have appeared elsewhere in one form or another. More likely, it *had* already been written (or passed on verbally) long before appearing in the pages of the Bible.</p>
<p>Scholars have discovered that the stories and myths printed in the Bible are essentially mere duplicates of myths that had appeared in religious texts predating Christianity.  Everything from the &#8220;Great Flood,&#8221; the crucifixion and the resurrection story: all are the same stories from earlier religions with only slight variations. </p>
<p>The striking similarities of what we call &#8220;pagan&#8221; religions (particularly those from BCE eras) and Christianity is quite eye-opening. It is clear that the writers of the Bible had merely copied stories from their predecessors. (I will go over this topic at more length another time.) </p>
<p>Back to the point in question: Civilizations in the BCE eras most certainly had moral codes.  Of course, as with most other aspects of society, morals were less refined or &#8220;expressed&#8221; as they are today. (And, when in the absence of an organized government and law enforcement: even more so.) But they most certainly did have moral codes. </p>
<p>Until the scientific era, civilizations tried to grasp and explain the many mysteries of life. It is only natural that humans would invent supernatural gods, myths and religions in order to explain the unexplainable. Moral codes were then incorporated into these religions or myths. Some &#8220;moral codes&#8221; were integrated into religion for governmental control; to govern the people by instilling fear in them.  </p>
<p>Technically?  Yes, it would be fair to say that most moral codes originated in religion.  </p>
<p>Could moral codes have arisen without religion?  Yes, most definitely. </p>
<p>Would these moral codes have been different without religious influence?  There are a few so-called &#8220;morals&#8221; that some religious groups still cling to today, which I earnestly do not believe would exist had it not been for religion. </p>
<p>**I say &#8220;so-called&#8221; as I, personally, would not refer to them as &#8220;morals&#8221; in any way, shape, or form. (Yes, here is where we run into trouble: defining &#8220;morals.&#8221; <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The God Delusion&#8221; and the question of morality by Dane</title>
		<link>http://moralheathen.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/the-god-delusion-and-the-question-of-morality/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moralheathen.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-2</guid>
		<description>I certainly agree with your statements about religious faith not being the deciding factor in whether someone is &quot;moral&quot; or not (&quot;morality&quot; itself is a pretty tricky word.) I assume you are moral sir, because of the title of your blog and because of the tone of what you write, so I&#039;m not questioning that. It&#039;s only that I don&#039;t think it&#039;s really a fair argument now, because the &quot;moral&quot; values originally brought forth be religion are pretty much engrained in our society. At the end of your post, you mention &quot;do unto others as you would have done unto you,&quot; an abbreviation of an extremely well known statement from the Bible. As your knowledge of this statement shows, it&#039;s an incredibly obvious &quot;common sense&quot; moral law, so really, you&#039;re following a code of conduct first set down by religion, it&#039;s only that you reject the dogmatic, supernatural part of it. 

Not that there&#039;s anything wrong with that. I don&#039;t think being a Christian or a &quot;moral person&quot; is as much about believing that a guy who died came back to life, or any &quot;miracles&quot; for that matter, I&#039;m just saying that the phenomenon of &quot;the Moral Heathen&quot; might be more recent than we sometimes think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly agree with your statements about religious faith not being the deciding factor in whether someone is &#8220;moral&#8221; or not (&#8220;morality&#8221; itself is a pretty tricky word.) I assume you are moral sir, because of the title of your blog and because of the tone of what you write, so I&#8217;m not questioning that. It&#8217;s only that I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s really a fair argument now, because the &#8220;moral&#8221; values originally brought forth be religion are pretty much engrained in our society. At the end of your post, you mention &#8220;do unto others as you would have done unto you,&#8221; an abbreviation of an extremely well known statement from the Bible. As your knowledge of this statement shows, it&#8217;s an incredibly obvious &#8220;common sense&#8221; moral law, so really, you&#8217;re following a code of conduct first set down by religion, it&#8217;s only that you reject the dogmatic, supernatural part of it. </p>
<p>Not that there&#8217;s anything wrong with that. I don&#8217;t think being a Christian or a &#8220;moral person&#8221; is as much about believing that a guy who died came back to life, or any &#8220;miracles&#8221; for that matter, I&#8217;m just saying that the phenomenon of &#8220;the Moral Heathen&#8221; might be more recent than we sometimes think.</p>
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